Dowsing--Curry-Hartman--New-Age-(Tegenfeldt)--

Subject:  Dowsing, Curry/Hartman, New Age (Tegenfeldt)..
Date:     Tue, 15 Feb 2000 083250 -0600 (CST)
From:     "Roy L. Beavers" 
To:       emfguru 
--------------------------------------------------

..........One must appreciate the thoughtful quality of Clas'
response below.....

Roy Beavers (EMFguru)
roy@emfguru.com

.....It is better to light a single candle than to curse the darkness.....
                    NEW!!! Website... http://emfguru.com
...................People are more important than profits.................

            DO YOU KNOW OF OTHERS WHO SHOULD BE ON THIS LIST???

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 14:06:04 +0100
From: Clas Tegenfeldt 
To: "Roy L. Beavers" 
Subject: Dowsing, Curry/Hartman, New Age

Sorry for an lengthy answer, but I hope to spread some light on 
geophysics and misconceptions that are well spread. Dowsers and
others use these misconceptions to prove their view of the world,
I want to give my view of it.

Read on below. /Clas

At 19:22 2000-02-14 -0600, you wrote:
>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 15:28:41 -0800 (PST)
>From: Mladen Milidragovic 
>To: "Roy L. Beavers" 
>Subject: Re: Comment on "Stray voltage story (Beal) (Kingsbury)(Lundquist)..
>
>Dear Roy (and others, if this is posted),
>I didn't see any plausible explanation for detecting microwaves in 'stray
>currents' and I'm offering my own.
>
>In 1965 two engineers from Bell Telephone were testing some newly developed
>microwave equipment and were astonished when they picked up 'something' from
>the earth. To my knowledge that was the first time on this continent (and
>probably the last) that somebody from official circles - other than dowsers -
>recognized the existence of the so called 'earth rays'. Those of you who can
>read German would be astonished reading "Die Strahlung der Erde" ("Earth
>Radiation") by German engineer Robert Endroes, IMHO worth of Nobel Prize.
>University of Zurich investigated this phenomenon and they were using
>portable TV sets whose picture and sound would be greatly distorted over
>underground water streams, geologic faults and Hartmann and Curry crossings.
>A lot of you probably have had a similar experience with car radios: you stop
>the car and all of a sudden you can't hear the radio that well; you move the
>car 30cm and the sound reappears. 


This is a quite typical way of using science and easily observed facts to 
justify speculation or ones own favorite theory.

If you move an radio receivers antenna 30 cm or so what really happens is that
you will place it on different parts of a standing wave, if you place
it on a node you won´t get any reception. This is mostly due to reflections
and multiple pathways of the waves. This is true for any
type of wave, mechanical or electromagnetic (including optical).
This has nothing to do with "earth radiation".

That you will find natural microwaves is not a proof for anything like
"earth rays" or that dowsing could be explained by it. Once upon a 
time when rigging up a new sensitive microwave receiver there
was a constant unexpected noise...
Why was that? After extensive checking of the circuits for faults the
explanation instead revolutionized astronomy. The noise was the 
microwave background noise from the universe around us.

The fact that microwave reception is different from place to place is 
nothing magic at all, microwaves are waves that follow the same laws as all
waves, they will also be transmitted, reflected or absorbed differently
depending on the electrical properties of the material. Wet soil or 
underground water will affect microwaves and all other electromagnetic
waves differently than the surrounding dry soil. This is widely used
in geophysical surveys. You can even do it from an airplane...

Geologic faults, water, oil or mineral deposits can be detected by
proper use of laws of physics. This can in no way be interpreted that
Curry and Hartman lines/crosses are a matter of fact or proven by
measurements, they are not. Curry and Hartman is a model of thought
used by dowsers, often put forward as a theory, but without any
theoretical explanation behind it, it is a lot of talk but no
math, no physics, no logic. I know some dowsers will disagree to this
but I have never seen anything like a theory that even in a 
hypothetical way could be proven true or false. If you can´t prove
OR falsify a model (of any kind of phenomena), that model is not worthy
of attention since it is meaningless. If a model can´t be proved
neither falsefied it contains no information whatsoever! If the
model could make some kind of prediction (contains information) 
then it CAN be proven or falsified....

I DO think position on the earth may have influence on the body
(all living things as well), but I firmly believe it is due
to physics as we know it, not Curry-Hartman-earth radiation or
some other pseudo-religious proposals.


>Dr Kohfink (from Germany, of course) invented an Exa-Hertz-Multimeter with
>a "plasma antenna" and showed that the 'earth radiation' consists of
>frequencies between 10^3 Hz and 10^21 Hz. Staengle from Germany and Bickler
>from the US developed (several decades ago) extremely complex scintillation
>counters for detecting the gamma component from the water veins radiation.
>Even using my commercial scintillation counter I was able to pick up several
>counts above background gamma radiation level over (previously dowsed??)
>water streams. This radiation can break concrete, asphalt and ceramic tiles

And? For instance radon gas is a volatile gas that tries to break free,
everywhere there are breaks, faults in the ground or building material
it will leak through. Water is of course easier for the radon gas to 
travel through than homogenous soil. OK?

On the other hand, if you detect a higher count (alpha, beta, gamma, muon etc.)
you cannot draw any conclusions whether or not there is a water
vein underneath. It could be anything, different soils or maybe you
just stumbled over an local uranium mine? (yeah sure).
So, your scintillation counter is not a good water search instrument.

Above: "earth radion" is quoted to be "from 10^3 Hz" (that is 1000 Hz and 
belongs to the low frequency part, way below long wave radio) 
"to 10^21 Hz" which is up way beyond visible light (UV starts
at about 480 nm, 10^21 Hz is 0,3 nm i.e. x-ray/gamma).
If this would be a true statement the earth would glow with 
wisible light in the dark, thus a mine or cave wouldn´t
be completely dark. By using a photon multiplier or the 
naked eye this can be proven false! The eye can as well as the 
multiplier detect a single photon of visible light! There is no way
to circumwent this falsification of the statement by saying the
"intensity is so low it can´t be seen". If the intensitivity is so low
it can´t be detected then there is NO photon whatsoever - thus 
the falsification of the statement is completed.

The talk about frequency is very common and very misleading, most
often I´ve heard "it is of a ultrahigh frequency, like 10^1000 Hz", 
(which of course cannot be measured). However that is also 
easily shown to be impossible just by a simple energy calculation...

"Exa-Hertz-multimeter"? What is that? Okey, Hertz means periodic cycles
per second and is measured in 1/sec. Exa is a prefix that stands for
10^15 Hz, which is equivallent to 299 nm - ultraviolet light.
"Multimeter" is just a way of saying a meter that can measure
several things, it is used to designate an instrument which can 
measure Volt-Ampere-Ohm (voltage, current and resistance). Resistance
is not associated with frequency and is thus not applicable to
"Exa-Hertz-multimeter". Voltage and current is also very hard to 
use at Exa-Hertz since the physical phenomena involved is more
of an electromagnetic wave than a voltage driving a current in something.
Also at exahertz the wave is becoming more and more particle like, 
as you know light can both be described as an electromagnetic wave as
well as an particle. All in all "Exa-Hertz-multimeter" is a fancy
intriguing word but quite meaningless. The only real meaning is to 
impress the non-critical reader.

The term "Plasma antenna" is also of the Star Trek type.


>and was causing cancer in 100% cases before the electricity was invented.

"100% cases", oh my! We would all be quite dead then? Or was it just 
a subgroup of people who was completely and utterly terminated?
If so, how large (in percentage) was that subgroup of the population?
Or was it 100% lethal cases of those who died? ;-)
However this is twisted it is a hasty statement easily proven false.
In biology and medicine there is NO SUCH THING as 100% of the cases, 
especially when it comes to cancer.

Only life itself is 100% lethal, you never survive it! ;-)


>Right now I'm testing a sensitive microwave detector - pointing it to the
...snip...
>I'd also like to comment on the question of various neutralizing devices,
>on this list called 'snake oil' devices. I know that some of them work and
>some don't, but a definite scientific proof could give people like Dr. Gerard
>Hyland and Dr. Harry Oldfield. A lot of attention was paid to Dr. Hyland's
>Memo but I didn't hear anybody asking about his work, human body's extra-weak
>light (biophotons), instruments, methods. Yes, Roy, human aura is becoming
>very 'scientific'.
>
>Regards,
>
>Mladen Milidragovic


Human aurora is not what I would call "very scientific". Most people 
refer indirectly back to Kirlian photography for "proof" on this, 
without knowing that Kirlian photography in no way shows any unseen
forces, it is just a simple sideeffect of STRONG electric fields acting
on photographic material. No magic at all. I would dare to say no proof
for human auroras exists, but it sure is a nice thought though ;-)

In this email I am very negative to dowsers "explaining" things with
help of pseudoscience and misconceptions, but I want to say that I 
in no way excludes the possibility that a dowsers senses some changes
in the enviroment at different places, which may give an indication.
What I DO react to is the tendency to "explain" it with new age 
religious belief in "earth radiation", "Curry" or "Hartman" lines/crosses
of some force unknown to science. The tendency to discredit science and
scientists as non-believers and "not wanting to know" is a very 
dangerous path. When belief is a substitute for knowledge it cannot
be discussed anymore, an axiom, it becomes "truth".

The industry believe powerlines or cellular phones are "safe", it is
an axiom since there can never be an /absolute/ proof for it, just maybe
an /absence/ of fallen bodies, should we then believe their belief?
Of course not. On the other hand, if some studies show there is a
risk, however slight, the question of "safe" is non-valid and
transforms into just a question of how large/small a risk it poses.


ps. 
This email could just as well have been triggered by someone elses 
message than Mladen Milidragovic, this is not meant to be some kind
of personal attack. It is more of a response to a trend becoming 
more and more pronounced.
ds.


Clas Tegenfeldt

BEMI
Tornevalla Gamla Skola
S-590 62 LINGHEM, SWEDEN

tegen@bemi.se, http://www.bemi.se
Telephone +46 (0)13-74 000, telefax +46 (0)13-13 47 00




Archive provided courtesy of WaveGuide, http://www.wave-guide.org
Reprinted with permission of Roy Beavers, http://www.emfguru.com