Subject: Re (Fist) Re "A marked deck....." (fwd)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 133053 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Roy L. Beavers" <rbeavers@llion.org>
To: emfguru@hotmail.com
--------------------------------------------------
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 11:53:46 -0400
From: "Dr. Markov"
To: "Roy L. Beavers"
Cc: emfguru@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: (Fist) Re: "A marked deck....." (fwd)
Roy L. Beavers wrote:
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 13:55:27
> From: Alasdair Philips
> To: "Roy L. Beavers"
> Cc: Stewart Fist
> Subject: Re: (Fist) Re: "A marked deck....." (fwd)
>
> Stewart
> You write:
> "According to Ross Adey, "Liburdy's initial observation of 12mG 60 Hz field
> inhibition of melatonin's regulation of human breast cancer cell growth has
> been beautifully confirmed (not "replicated") by Blackman at EPA and Luben at
> UC Riverside."
> "Unless there's been a true replication, I think it is important that we don't
> leave open such overstated claims to attack."
> ........
> Yes, we MUST not get the words we use wrong, BUT actually Liburdy's work
> has now been 'confirmed' by many other labs and it is QUITE WRONG for the
> NIEHS to exclude important work by using the excuse that it hadn't been
> EXACTLY replicated - in fact, often work which is taken as "exact"
> replication - isn't because they haven't controlled for the Earth's
> geomagnetic field which varies greatly around (even) the USA (important
> if any of the EMF 'resonance' theories have any validity); often they
> haven't even controlled for the electric field component (yes, really!).
>
> Many other important studies which supported each other but hadn't "been
> exactly replicated" were also left out by the NIEHS selection protocol.
> Many studies that DO get replicated are actually the dubious ones and it is
> a subtle way for the industry (etc) to adversely influence good science.
>
> Alasdair
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Alasdair Philips (aphilips@gn.apc.org)
> Director, UK Powerwatch,
> EMC Engineer and EMF-bioeffects researcher
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> At 05:31 20/09/98 -0500, you wrote:
> >
> >......I happily accept the correction from Stewart Fist (and Ross
> >Adey).......guru.......
> >
> >---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 19:41:03 +1000
> >From: Stewart Fist
> >To: "Roy L. Beavers"
> >Subject: Re: "A marked deck....."
> >
> >Roy, you state:
> >> Wayne, the situation as I have seen it (at NIEHS) is that they are
> >> not even willing to acknowledge solid, double blind, replicated lab
> >> experiments (like the work done on melatonin by Liburdy) when it produces
> >> results which do not conform with their EXPECTATIONS.
> >
> >While agreeing with your sentiments, and not wanting to nit-pick ... I don't
> >want to let a mistake you've made here be taken up and circulated widely.
> >
> >According to Ross Adey, "Liburdy's initial observation of 12mG 60 Hz field
> >inhibition of melatonin's regulation of human breast cancer cell growth has
> >been beautifully confirmed (not "replicated") by Blackman at EPA and Luben at
> >UC Riverside."
> >
> >Unless there's been a true replication, I think it is important that we don't
> >leave open such overstated claims to attack.
Hi everybody,
For those who comment the work of Liburdy, I should say that he very
precisely controlled the magnetic field conditions. When he is talking
for a given magnetic field strength, this is the field his experimental
culture received in a very well shielded chamber. So this is real
magnetic field without GMF influencing the result.
However, the point of controlling the levels of GMF is extremely
important especially when you deal with low level magnetic fields.
I would like to point that magnetic fields used in Liburdy' or Blackman"
laboratories are in completely different range (in respect of frequency)
and there is no reason to look for direct confirmation of the results
from low frequency (60 Hz) to high frequency (900 MHz).
Dr. Marko Markov
> >
> >==============
> >Stewart Fist - writer and columnist
> >See http://www.theaustralian.com.au/techno/columns/fist.htm
> > http://www.abc.net.au/http/sfist/ (some archives)
> > http://www.electric-words.com (main archives)
> >70 Middle Harbour Road, Lindfield, 2070, N.S.W, Australia
> >Phone +61 2 9416 7458 Fax +61 2 9416 4582
> >
> >
Archive provided courtesy of WaveGuide, http://www.wave-guide.org
Reprinted with permission of Roy Beavers, http://www.feb.se/EMF-L/EMF-L.html