Subject: RE Is there an EMF connection with CFS? (Maisch) (Benson)...
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 045447 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Roy L. Beavers"
To: emfguru
--------------------------------------------------
Sarah:
......I don't have any quarrel with the (speculative) reasoning that
follows. I don't have any quarrel with Neil Cherry or Don Maisch on
this, either. What I am asking is what is the evidence (research)
that enables us to change our 'speculation' into assertive conclusions
of the type that were contained in Don's article???
Indeed, I have the same 'speculative' notion about a connection
between EMF and prostate cancer (as well as breast cancer, brain cancer
and testicular cancer). All of these forms of cancer are said to be
on the increase in our 'electrified' society today.... Most of the
"scientific" speculation has pointed toward chemicals as the cause, as
you note below.
But, I believe, it should be argued that the reason EMF is not being
regarded with more suspicion ... is that we do not have the research
to back us up..... If EMF were as heavily researched as the chemicals,
the picture **could** change.... Because, it seems to me that we DO
have a sufficient basis (given what little we already know about the
EMF impact on the behavior of at least one hormone) to speculate that the
same kind of mechanism, that is at work in the melatonin case, could be
affecting the other hormones that are involved with these other
cancers.... [.....I also WONDER if "science" doesn't have some kind of
a "hang-up" causing the finger to be pointed at chemicals in order to
divert attention away from electromagnetic radiation????..... Think about
it -- it is SO MUCH EASIER to get research money for research on the
chemical industry than it is for research on EMF!?!.... There is a
strong "environmentalist" push to find that the chemicals are the bad
guys...... NOBODY wants electricity (or RF, MW, etc.) to be
"bad."......????......]
All I am saying, Sarah, is that:
We need evidence if we are going to change our statements from speculative
statements of "suspicion" to assertive statements of a "causative"
nature..... I also fear that we damage our credibility when we cross over
that line without some 'quality' evidence.....
.......As a separate matter, I also tried to raise the question of what
'exectly' is CFS or EHS??? It is my understanding that there is not much
agreement on that within the medical community???
Cheerio....
Roy Beavers (EMFguru)......
rbeavers@llion.org.......
.....It is better to light a single candle than to curse the darkness.....
EMF-L web-site can be found at:
EMF-L archives can be found at:
..................PEOPLE ARE MORE IMPORTANT THAN PROFITS..................
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 15:21:48 +1000
From: "Benson, Sarah (Sen L. Allison)"
To: "'Roy L. Beavers'"
Subject: RE: Is there an EMF connection with CFS? (Maisch)...
Hi Roy
I am a bit puzzled by your non-acceptance of the link between exposure to
EMR/EMFs and general debility conditions such as CFS and EHS. While I admit
that these conditions are probably also caused by chemicals and stress, if
we on this list basically about recognise the health effects at low level
exposure of EMR and EMFs - then surely such conditions are just a part of
it. I mean, if a microwave is disturbing the cells of the body (something I
presume you accept) - why would we not get sick or debilitated? Neil Cherry
says that he thinks about 30% of the population would be affected in this
way - on his understanding of the epidemiology and research that is
available. The human organism is an integrated whole......and there are
many doctors here in Australia who are now recognising this and getting
themselves trained in acupuncture, naturopathy etc. Its all part of the
paradigm shift that has to happen if we are not to self-destruct betimes.
Cheers
Sarah Benson
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roy L. Beavers [SMTP:rbeavers@llion.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, 8 September 1999 10:44 AM
> To: emfguru
> Subject: Is there an EMF connection with CFS? (Maisch)...
>
>
> Don:
>
> Can you "tie" any of the following to reputable scientific or medical
> research????
>
> Is CFS, itself, a bona fide diagnosable condition? How about EHS?
> What is it, actually, in bona fide scientific or medical terms....
>
> Cheerio.....
>
> Roy Beavers (EMFguru)......
> rbeavers@llion.org.......
> .....It is better to light a single candle than to curse the darkness.....
> EMF-L web-site can be found at:
> EMF-L archives can be found at:
> ..................PEOPLE ARE MORE IMPORTANT THAN PROFITS..................
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:06:29 +1000
> From: Don Maisch
> To: "Roy L. Beavers"
> Subject: Is there an EMF connection with CFS?
>
> Dear Roy
>
> Thanks for your reply but I have to dissagree with you about your
> statement: " there is not yet sufficient basis for the CFS [and EMF]
> subject matter". This same claim is also leveled at Electromagnetic
> HyperSensitivity (EHS) and I think it is time we examine this very subject
> carefully and not dismiss this topic without carefully considering the
> facts.
>
> The term CFS is a catch-all label used to describe a debilitating
> illness,
> THE CAUSE OF WHICH IS STILL UNKNOWN. Diagnosis is done largely by
> exclusion
> of other possible diseases. Since EHS is largely unknown to the vast
> majority of doctors working with CFS diagnosed patients, it is not even
> considered as a possible factor. With CFS we basically have a severly
> dysfunctional immune system which has been adversely effected by an
> unknown
> stressor, which in the majority of cases may be viral but most importantly
> may also be from environmental factors as well.
>
> The role of EMFs as a possible risk factor for some cases of diagnosed
> CFS is examined in our jointly written paper, " Chronic Fatigue Syndrome
> (CFS) - Is prolonged exposure to environmental level powerline frequency
> magnetic fields a co- factor to consider in treatment?" . This was
> published in the Journal of The Australasian College of Nutritional and
> Environmental Medicine ( ACNEM ), Vol. 17 No. 2; Dec. 1998. This paper is
> on my web site at: < http://www.tassie.net.au/emfacts/cfs-paper.html >
>
> Additionally, working with the ACNEM group I am continuing to investigate
> the possible EMF connection with a range of immune system effects, not
> just CFS, and have an ongoing paper on this which can be read at:
> < http://www.tassie.net.au/emfacts/case-studies.html >
>
> Please have a look on page 252-253 in Robert Becker's book "CROSS
> CURRENTS" to see what Dr. Becker says about CFS and EMF exposure.
>
> To dismiss the possible role of EMF exposure in an immune system disease
> such as CFS and refuse to list messages on this issue because you
> personally don't think there is enough evidence does not stand up to
> critical examination.
>
> I am now of the opinion that for people who are having immune system
> related health problems attributed to EMF exposure (considering EMF
> exposure as a possible immune system stressor), they should not be put
> into
> the CFS "category". To do so is to mis-diagnose their problem which should
> more accurately be calssified as EHS.
>
> The problem in Australia and elsewhere, is that since the condition of
> EHS
> is unknown to the vast majority of medical practitioners, patients who are
> having EHS symptoms are mostly categorised as having CFS since the
> symptone
> are similar. However some of the apparent differences noted to date are:
>
> EHS patients tend to report a gradual decline in health without the
> characteristic initial onset of flu-like symptoms, characteristic of CFS.
>
> With EHS patients they tend to have low iron levels / anemia.
>
> With EHS when their EMF exposure is removed or reduced, they tend to
> recover, depending upon the duration of previous exposure.
>
> CFS patients tend to have vivid dreams whereas EHS patients tend not
> remember any dreaming.
>
> (This is very preliminary at the moment.)
>
> With further research it may be possible to develop a list of symptoms
> characteristic for immune system dysfunction related to excessive EMF
> exposure. Such a list would allow doctors working with CFS patients to
> identify which of their patients may actually have EHS. Once identified,
> steps can be made to identify and reduce their exposures, as well as
> using
> specific medical treatment for EHS.
>
> I request that this be posted on your discussion group and I hope that
> reader's comments will be forthcoming.
>
> Regards
>
> Don Maisch
>
>
> >Don:
> >
> >I feel that there is not yet sufficient scientific basis for the
> >CFS subject matter..... One of the "charges" we have to guard against
> >is the charge that "the EMF activists see a connection with every
> >ailment in our society."
> >
> >Perhaps the CFS connection is valid, but we have not yet established
> >a credible basis for saying so....
> >
> >Cordially,
>
> >Guru.....
>
>
>
> _______________________________
>
> EMFacts Consultancy
> PO Box 96,
> North Hobart, 7002
> Tasmania, Australia
> Phone: (03) 62430195
> Fax: (03) 62430340
> Email: emfacts@trump.net.au
> ICQ: 30814841
> Web: http://www.tassie.net.au/emfacts/
> ______________________________
>
>
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Reprinted with permission of Roy Beavers, http://www.emfguru.com